Excellent demos. Guy continues to demonstrate a huge range of composing chops. Beat Kaufman's was excellent and I really liked the theme on the Rob Elliot piece.

By the way, there was a mention of the euphonium. That is a tremendous set of samples, and I didn't even think of no vibrato being a problem, since the tone quality and detail is beautiful. That guy is an awesome player! The legato is wonderful, but also, the basic sustain euphonium is all perfectly looped, 4 velocity and goes way down in the range. Was that stretched? - if it was it still sounded perfect - but there may be some pedal tones in there. Anyway it is an awesome sound for that beautiful conical-bore, mellow upper-mid-range tuba timbre.

@DaveTubaKing said:

Guy, what patch did you use for the cornet triple tongueing?

Nice composition by the way. Perhaps you could put the solo part down an octave and play it on the Euphonium - Oh! excpet there's no vibrato patch [:'(]

You're right Dave, I checked it out and the vibrato is pretty subtle [:O]ops: it's the same for the Wagner tuba, I remember when I did the demo on the Wagner tuba and found it very difficult not having vibrato. I hope herb doesn't mind this criticism and I'd rather see it as a user's constructive feedback for future improvements. [[;)]]

I am wondering if "Davetubaking" has the euphonium and has listened to it. Already the complaints have begun, along with the assumption that everything has to be perfect and absolutely complete instantly. I find this irritating. As I stated this is an incredibly good set of samples - by far the best euphonium ever sampled - and for people to instantly focus on one missing articulation - especially considering it is NOT STANDARD to play euphonium with vibrato (at least in any American band or other useage I have ever heard) - is annoying.

Well my assumption is that the VSL brass instrument that don't have vib or little vib are probably not characterized by that feature and possibly gives a clumsy effect if not handled properly, maybe the natural tone is more important, I don't know and I'm not a wind player.

I guess I am just annoyed by this davetubaking post, because I am really excited by the euphonium sounds and thinking about how to use them, and here is somebody already criticizing it.

BTW you should be receiving a detailed letter of my 15 years experience in sledge-hammering, although 14 of those years I was in disability, but I think I'll be fine.....

Thank you Guy, I am very interested in receiving that letter, though I can't promise anything until I see the details. But I want to add I admire your courage in forging ahead with the Big Hammer despite all the obstacles you had to overcome. You are an inspiration to us all.

David - thanks again for your kind words (have had a tough client the last couple weeks - nice to hear nice things for a change [:D]


William - I get crazy insane about theme development - really important to me and frankly miss it most of the times. Your comments makes me want to forge and ahead and stay the course!!!!


Thanks again.


Rob

@Rob Elliott said:

David - thanks again for your kind words (have had a tough client the last couple weeks - nice to hear nice things for a change [:D]


William - I get crazy insane about theme development - really important to me and frankly miss it most of the times. Your comments makes me want to forge and ahead and stay the course!!!!


Thanks again.


Rob

What does this have to do with sledgehammer?

I'm confused!

@William said:

I guess I am just annoyed by this davetubaking post, because I am really excited by the euphonium sounds and thinking about how to use them, and here is somebody already criticizing it.

But my criticism was prefaced both in this thread and elsewhere by my usually fullsome praise. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who talks up VSL more than I do both here and on other forums.

What VSL have given us is the perfect orchestral tenor tuba. You could mock up any of the tenor tuba parts like Mars, Don Quixote (although that could do with some vib), and has already been done Janacek's Sinfonietta with great panache.

Orchestral tenor tuba parts are very often played by one of the trombonists, as with this sample set, so even more authentic.

The only other Euphonium sample set I have is Dan Dean Brass and I found it unuseable, a dreadful sound.

But what VSLs set isn't, and what I so wanted it to be, (hence my dissapointment) is a Solo Euphonium gig alla the great brass band soloists. The best solo euphonium players rank with the best musicians of any instrument. I'm thinking John Clough of Black Dyke Mills in the 70s, Barry Perrins who played with lowly Hendon for 20 years and of the current crop of extraordinary virtuosis Steven Mead and the holy trinity of the Child's Brothers.

These guys would blow your mind away with their skill and musicianship. They didn't double on euphonium in the same way that Rostropovitch didn't double on cello.

And what they all had, as any great wind player must have, is a beautiful controlled vibrato which they could turn on and off as needed. Imagine playing arrangements of Nessum Dorma or Elgars Cello concerto or any of the solo lines from 150 years of vast Brass Band repertoire without vibrato.

What brought it home was listening to Guy's cornet peice and the lovely vibrato he employed. If the cornet could have it why not the Euphonium. Perhaps VSL recorded it but felt it wasn't up to scratch. Who knows.

I will miss the lack of light vib, heavy vib and progressive vib when I come to render my arrangements of A Nightingal Sang or Oh Danny Boy (now that needs to be dripping vibrato). But render them I shall and I'm sure they will still sound beautiful and I will share them with you.

David

@Guy said:

You're right Dave, I checked it out and the vibrato is pretty subtle [:O]ops: it's the same for the Wagner tuba, I remember when I did the demo on the Wagner tuba and found it very difficult not having vibrato. I hope herb doesn't mind this criticism and I'd rather see it as a user's constructive feedback for future improvements. [[;)]]

Exactly what I intended by my comments. [:)]

@DaveTubaKing said:

Guy, what patch did you use for the cornet triple tongueing?

Nice composition by the way. Perhaps you could put the solo part down an octave and play it on the Euphonium - Oh! excpet there's no vibrato patch [:'(]

Don't cry.

For the triple tongue I think I used the upbeat 3 and I omitted the down beat by shortening the note and used a stacc note for the melody down beats on a different track.. I synced this perfectly so it would sound like 1 player trying to sound like 2 players rather than sounding like 2 players, if that makes any sense....In other words, no cheating. As soon as it started slowing down I switched to perf rep and played it in real time. I remember in high school a guest trumpetist came over and played a passage like that and it had an imprint on me, sounded like 2 trumpets!

Yes I had a listen to the triple upbeat sample. If you could just silence the downbeat note it would be a great patch for extended triple tongueing.

Your right about sounding like two players. That's exactly the effect when playing these really fast passages so commonly found in the traditional theme and variation works that cornet (and Euphonium) players love.

I can recommend two essential recordings of cornet solos. This first is Winton Marsallis playing a whole CD of these theme and variation peices. Some of the most virtuosic playing you will ever hear and it includes a Moto Perpetuo peice of continuous rapid semiquavers lasting over five minutes without stopping (using circular breathing) [[[[[[[:|]]]]]]]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Carnaval-Wynton-Marsalis-Jean-Baptiste-Arban/dp/B0000268PJ

and the second inlcudes a wonderful Salon style cornet work accompanied by a show style pit band, which judging by your cornet peice you will greatly enjoy. the soloist is malcolm McNab who is "The" session trumpet player on most of the big hollywood movies in the last 20 years. It also includes an unbeleivable performance on the Bb trumpet of the complete Tchaikovsky violin concerto where he plays the violin part as written [[[[[[[:|]]]]]]] [[[[[[[:|]]]]]]] I kid you not. in the cadenza he plays six octaves [[[[[[[:|]]]]]]] [[[[[[[:|]]]]]]] [[[[[[[:|]]]]]]]

http://www.malcolmmcnab.com/khr.html

David

Yeah! I just listened to these for the first time and Guy Bacos' writing on this is very,very good indeed. Well done to Guy. Excellent sound and style.

There's something about the sound of the six trumpets - is it my ears or do they not sound quite right. I think they sound good - but maybe if it were possible to have them split into 2x2x2.

Yes Paul you can do that with the combinations now available. I have been experimenting with various numbers. On trumpet alone there are three different legato solos with completely different sample sets that allow a line that comes together without phasing or screwing up numbers. Then you have the 3 ensemble and now the 6 ensemble, so there is a huge number of possible combos and splits.

@William said:

Yes Paul you can do that with the combinations now available. I have been experimenting with various numbers. On trumpet alone there are three different legato solos with completely different sample sets that allow a line that comes together without phasing or screwing up numbers. Then you have the 3 ensemble and now the 6 ensemble, so there is a huge number of possible combos and splits.

Thank you Bill. Very useful. I look forward to getting into writing something again soon with thses new sounds.

@William said:

..........huge number of possible combos and splits.

Actually, today I find myself needing some Brass splits. Guess I'll have to sample them myself. [:(]

DG

@Another User said:

Excellent demos. Guy continues to demonstrate a huge range of composing chops.

That's a nice compliment, thanks!

ps I'll have to call one of the future demos "The Sledgehammer" We already have the "Hammerklavier" [:)]


Dave,

Thanks for those links, I'll have a close listen and use it as inspiration.

Hello
First of all: Thanks for the positive feedbacks (demos)
I also perceived, that there is the wish for an Euphonium-Demo.

As you know I always like to play unusual things with the VSL-instruments...

Instruments:
-Euphonium
-Marimba
-Boesendorfer
-D.Bass
-Drums

Have fun with
Buzzing Bumble-Bee


All the best
Beat Kaufmann

Guy,

Fantastic writing on 'Blues and Cadenza'. The strings/cornet balance and harmonies are wonderful.

Best wishes,
Jack

[H] Yo! Beat, you're The Man [[[:D]]] [[[:D]]] [[[:D]]]