Long story, but a series of oddities sort of forced me to try 10.4.10. I've been testing various VIs with mixed results and will let you know how it goes with VI Cube. (MacPro 3G, 8GB RAM)

One problem I'm having is with one of East West's new libraries using PLAY. Not sure what the source of the problem is just yet and don't want to be an alarmist.

However, I have heard from several sources (ie: tech support from Apple/Logic and MOTU/DP) that using the COMBO update downloaded from Apple's site instead of using Software Update -- and then doing a Safe Boot (hold down the shift key during a cold boot) has quite a few MacPro users singing its praises.

I would say, however, that if your system is working well-- no matter if it's PPC or Intel-- to leave it alone.

Hey--

I'm trying to force things to crash, but SO FAR 10.4.10 and VI Cube are working very nicely together-- no problems on old projects or new projects.

I can't stress enough--- Download the COMBO update and don't use automatic Software Update. (this advice comes from several software developers)

1. Remove all dongles and USB peripherals except for the keyboard and mouse

2. Shut down and reboot in Safe mode (hold Shift key will booting)

3. After installation, make sure you RESTART the computer in regular mode. In fact, shut down completely and do a cold boot (ie: a normal boot up)

One other consideration for MacPro users:

Check your System> Library Folder for Expansion Slot Utility IF you are using a PCI interface.

Make sure that you are giving your audio PCI card more than 1x bandwidth-- when you choose a new setting, click Save and Restart.

General consideration for wonky behaviors:

Zapping PRAM was something Mac users did regularly in OS9, but we've taken OSX a little for granted-- thinking that certain routines were a thing of the past.

Hold down OPTION APPLE P R while booting. Does a world of good when things misbehave.

Last word of advice:

When doing OSX repair permissions/ disc utilities, boot from your computer's CD-ROMs to run it and not from the Utilities folder on the hard drive.

Cheers!

let me add: i'd recommend to reboot everytime before and after updating anything on OS X - processes from older versions remaining in memory can screw up many things during or after an update.

the tip to run disk utility from the OS DVD to repair permissions is clever, i'll have to add it to my portfolio of possible solutions.
christian

@cm said:

the tip to run disk utility from the OS DVD to repair permissions is clever, i'll have to add it to my portfolio of possible solutions.
christian

Even is the OS DVD is 2 years old ? how can it be safe if many updates have been already applied ?

Should only work with a recent OS DVD ?

@cm said:

the tip to run disk utility from the OS DVD to repair permissions is clever, i'll have to add it to my portfolio of possible solutions.
christian

Even is the OS DVD is 2 years old ? how can it be safe if many updates have been already applied ?
...that's it! I... quote!
It's a [*-)]: for me too... What about all the latest updates...?

basically a good question ... though the permissions for system files shouldn't change with updates i've been always wondering from where the disk utility takes the information which file should have which privileges.
this http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25751 could be part of the answer (in a nutshell: correct permissions are stored in the installer package)
some basic explanation about permissions http://www.gideonsoftworks.com/macosxprivileges.html
christian

@Another User said:

...i've been always wondering from where the disk utility takes the information which file should have which privileges.
this http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25751 could be part of the answer (in a nutshell: correct permissions are stored in the installer package)...

[*-)]: [*-)]: [*-)]: [:O]ops:
...sorry cm (and JWL)... I've just readed that doc... have I misunderstood this line?
>> Should I start up from a Mac OS X install disc to repair disk permissions?
When possible, disk permissions should be repaired while started up from a Mac OS X volume (hard disk) that contains updated Mac OS X software, instead of a Mac OS X installation disc. Mac OS X software updates may change permissions on some files to improve security. When this occurs, the version of Disk Utility on the Mac OS X volume is updated to account for the new permissions. Running Disk Utility while started from the Mac OS X volume ensures that the changes made by software updates are preserved. <<

I'm more confused now...! [:(] Help!

There are caveats, and what you've pointed out about the Utility itself being updated is one of them. Problem is that some things can't be fixed as long as the volume is mounted.

I've always sworn by DiskWarrior for such tasks in the past (and still do), but some people have impressed upon me not to underestimate the capabilties of Apple's own utilities. Even where an OS would change (ie: 10.4.9 to 10.4.10), DiskWarrior is still v. 4.0 itself, so using a third-party utility under such circumstances raises the same questions that using Apples Disk Utility would for the same purpose.

Repair Permission is only one part of the Apple Disk Utility. Where running from the volume or install disks might be weighed, cm is onto something with his statement that permissions shouldn't change. But we also have docs and tech notes to refer to before doing maintenance when we're unsure.

The other parts of the Apple Disk Utility include Verify Disk and Repair Disk. In some cases a mounted disk cannot be repaired. There's really no choice but to try to repair from a CD-ROM (or DVD-ROM)-- either from Apple or from a third-party.

In those cases where one might be concerned if their third-party utility is no more up to date than their Apple install discs, then there is the *ugly* option of buying the latest version of OSX discs from Apple even if you already own an earlier version of discs.

When in doubt, contact Apple Tech Support directly. Apple's docs are quite informative, but they also include "safe" statements that don't always address all concerns on a given topic. How the Disk Utility from 10.4.3 discs, for example, impact on permissions or general volume repair on a 10.4.9 volume is something only Apple could answer as per your specific needs.

I updated to 10.4.10 without any problems. Even ProTools still worked.

As for the audio problems... aren't those related to laptops only? Certainly not external devices/PCI cards etc.

In response to some posts above:
I keep a separate partition with OSX installed ("Drive B"). I always update it to whatever version of OSX I use on my main drive. Diskwarrior is also present there.

I have had MANY instances where I've been forced to reboot from my Drive B because my main drive has had serious problems. It's way faster than booting from a CD-ROM and DiskWarrior saves my butt every time. (By the way, the DiskWarrior manual warns you NOT to run DiskUtility or any other rescue app first...)

For some OS upgrades in the past, I have done the safe boot/unplug everything/de-install extensions etc etc etc. This time, I backed up my main drive and simply ran the updater.

Not a single problem so far. (No doubt, my whole system will go legs up directly after this post....)

It's all voodoo. [[:|]]

Regards - Colin

@musos said:

Not a single problem so far. (No doubt, my whole system will go legs up directly after this post....)

It's all voodoo. [[:|]]

Regards - Colin

LOL-- let's hope your system holds steady for a good, long time!

When you say "not a single problem so far", I take it your're in 10.4.10? If so, congrats. Same here, so far.

Voodoo. LOL! [:P]

Thanks, JWL, for answering...

@Another User said:

Repair Permission...///...///...///.../// is something only Apple could answer as per your specific needs.

I can just agree with that... there are a lot of things that only Apple could answer, and -i think- they never will! (like the meaning of the "log" after Logic have a crash... we can send it to them... but they don't help us to understand, at least partially, it... Yeah! It's a... Forbidden Planet! [H])


So to speak...

Cheers,
Rino [:D]

Installed 10.4.10 (using the Combo updater) and have experienced no problems so far. (Repaired Permissions before and after, rebooted before install.)

Regarding Repairing Permissions, I was also told by an an Apple Tech to use Disk Utility on the startup disk and not on the CD ROM. I do it after starting in Safe Mode.

@Another User said:

.... there are a lot of things that only Apple could answer, and -i think- they never will! (like the meaning of the "log" after Logic have a crash... we can send it to them... but they don't help us to understand, at least partially, it... Yeah! It's a... Forbidden Planet! [H])


So to speak...

Cheers,
Rino [:D]

This is only a theory about the log "sent to Apple" on a crash:

The data is not immediately read by a human, but stored in their data base. Crashes of a certain type are sought out and compiled as needed by their computer only when a quantity of users having the problem bother to report the data to Apple. The only time the user comments are read by a human being (ie: "what were you doing at the time of the crash") is to verify what may have triggered the problem. If enough different users report the same problems, then Apple has no choice (in good conscience) but to address the issue.

That's just my theory, but I report everything to Apple that I can in hopes it helps in some way. It does feel like yelling into an empty cave sometimes: the only thing that comes back to you is the sound of your own voice echoing within the abyss. [[;)]]

I didn't see anything in the Apple information to make me think there's any reason to update. Am I wrong?

@Nick Batzdorf said:

I didn't see anything in the Apple information to make me think there's any reason to update. Am I wrong?

Honestly, Nick? I rarely understand why these things are updated at all as far as DAWs are concerned. I would have been happy to stay with 10.4.8, except once X4.9 was released it seemed that 10.4.8 started acting up on me.

Other than the alleged USB fix which might have had some residual benefit with dongles, I didn't see anything in particular where virtual instruments were concerned.

"if it ain't broke..."

Updated using Automatic update (which seems to select the right update for my computer rather than me possibly choosing the wrong one) on my MacbookPro and had a long session with VI and LogicPro yesterday and everything seems fine. Hope the voodoo doesn't get me!

JWL... you're right! ...on DiskWarrior 4, there is the new feature "Repair Disk Permissions"... [[;)]]



EDIT (3 hours later): ...sorry if we're going OT (it's a Parallel Cell [:D] ...ehm ehm... Topic![:O]ops[:)], but I've got to write this (also if I've not problem at all... just curiosity!)...
JWL (cm) I've repaired Disk Permissions with DW4 (booting from DW's DVD)... it's indeed repaired some of them... after re-booting MacOS X (still 10.4.9) on my startup disk, the first thing I've done, I've launched DiskUtilities and... Repaired Permissions again (just to see if DW has done a good job)... Well... also if DW 4 has Repaired Permissions... Disk Utilities has done it again... finding some errors... [[:|]] [*-)]: [*-)]: [*-)]:

I give up. [:'(]

rino-- there's no telling what's going on under the hood with these things.

If DW fixed some permissions and not others, and if OSX Repair managed a few others besides-- dunno-- difficult to say.

I'd be careful about using both permissions repair at the same time until Apple or Alsoft could shed some light on how each impacts on the system.

Generally speaking, I use Apple's own utilities first until such time the reports it gives indicate that it could not repair something. Then, I resort to DW and consign its results as final.

Where a file cannot be repaired, it's probably best to just replace the file. How each utility repairs permissions and directories is a bit of a mystery. One wonders with Apple's own utility why DW would be needed at all, exccept that DW *seems* to do a better job overall. I wouldn't take this as law, but it sounds to me that you are in good shape, Rino. I'd leave things alone until either utility tells you that there is a specific problem.

@Another User said:

there's no telling what's going on under the hood with these things.

I agree... completely! [:D]

Thanks JWL for... chattering! [[;)]]
Cheers...
R