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    @plurye said:

    JWL -

    That's pretty cool. Love to know if anyone's tried to run a Vienna VI-heavy DP sequence on a Mac Pro using a Symphony card with "virtually no latency". A setting of 64 would not fly with the Lighbridge on a sequence with lots of VIs! 'Twould be nice to see how DP and Logic compare efficiency-wise with the same hardware. Used to use Logic - DP interface is so much more straightforward; like you I'd hate to give that up. But i may have to as well.

    PL


    I may have some general reports on the Symphony-Logic-DP thingy soon, but not sure if they'll involve VI Cube just yet. Presently, I'm really considering a miniDAC for monitoring-- not a bad price to insert a major improvement in DA conversion at the moment. The bulk of my disposable pennies are going towards an Intel-- that is, once I finish crunching numbers for taxes!!!!!!!!!

    One thing I've not fully explored yet is using CueMix to get around VI latency during tracking. I think it initially felt like more trouble than it was worth, but it might be worth a revisit. (Please don't ask me to recall the process because it's been a while since last I tried!) No latency monitoring in DP has its caveats- wish it were easier. Maybe it is easier than I think-- dunno.

  • "I may have to do a side-by-side with Apogee and MH... thanks for the tip."

    We actually have just that - along with more - planned for our next issue of Virtual Instruments... not that I have either interface in yet, so I should probably shut up in case one of these companies is out of stock. [:)]

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    @Nick Batzdorf said:

    "I may have to do a side-by-side with Apogee and MH... thanks for the tip."

    We actually have just that - along with more - planned for our next issue of Virtual Instruments... not that I have either interface in yet, so I should probably shut up in case one of these companies is out of stock. [:)]


    Hey Nick--

    Do keep us posted. I'm deeply interested in any of your findings...

  • Will do.

  • Anyone have any experience with the Apogee Ensemble interface?

  • Has there been any buzz about a PCIe digital i/o card, a la the Dakota cards of yore? Symphony requires that you purchase an Apogee converter - seems like there must be a simple ADAT I/O PCIe card in the pipeline somewhere...

    Anyone hear anything?

  • I believe I heard RME had announced a PCIe card...

  • Here's a user review (not me) from another forum comparing the Ensemble to the Rosetta 800.

    Thought some of you may be interested in the comparison of Apogees' new Ensemble to the Rosetta.

    I A/B'd the two with the same track using Digital Performer sending the two tracks one to the Ensemble and one to the Rosetta. I used Mutt Langs' mix of his wife's song 'She's Not Just a Pretty Face'.

    First the inital sound: The Ensemble's converters are way different than the Rosetta's. The Rosetta is much more balanced, with clear highs and tight lows. The Ensemble's highs were like having a towel over the speaker - the highs were lacking terribly. The low end wasn't muddy, but "boomy" is a word that works. Because the high end was so off it really effected the imaging and since that is where most of the imaging comes from - that's a problem. The hat in the song was much more harsh than with the Rosetta.

    Before I purchased the unit I called Apogee and the rep said that the converters sounded very close to the Rosetta's...and, that with prices coming down on converters they were able to add the other functions (pre's an Instrument in's) while still keeping an affordable price point. Well, that was definitely not true. After I received the unit and before I A/B'd them, I spoke with a rep from Apogee and he basically described the sound of the converters just as I had above - highs lacking and lowend 'bigger' as he described. Wow, big change of description...I wouldn't have waited 5 months before mine finally arrived. Apogee feels that some people will want that lowend boom...hummm, I thought the object in audio was to have accuracy? If I want my audio to be colored I do by say a good mic pre or the like but not my converters that I am mixing with! Call me silly.

    On to the Mic Pre's - I have to say I thought they sounded pretty good. I compared my Portico 5012 by Rupert Neve to them and the highs were similar on the Ensemble, siblance was close to the same the lows on the Portico sounded fuller and the Portico seemed to have more 'glue' between the spectrum. Now mind you these were both recorded through the Ensemble's A to D's.

    Unfortunately I have not had a chance to test the Instrument in's so sorry I cannot give input there.

    Now some thing else that was interesting when I was speaking with Apogee...some companies will have better A/D converters and lesser grade D/A converters - obviously in the hopes of recording better quality sound. Well, the Ensemble's converters, again according to Apogee, the converters are the same in and out! Which means that the same lacking highs and hyped lows will be recorded. Can you imagine that mixing nightmare over an entire song using the boxes inputs - yikes! Break out the EQ and hurry!!!

    So, luckily I was able to test this and box it back up and send it back.

    A few other minor issues with the box. I couldn't use the lowest sample setting of 64 (for latency) without terrible clicks - 128 was the lowest. I could not use the highest setting either had to use 20xx (can't remember the last two digits) setting. Some times the Ensemble wasn't recognised...sometimes Maestro, the software that comes with it, was unavailable and I had to reboot. The two knobs on the front wiggle too much.


    So all in all I was not impressed. I hope this some how helps someone with making a decision if this box is right for you. It has a lot of flexibility to it that is for sure but Apogee cut the most important corner in my mind, the sound!!


    In fairness, here's a slightly different take from yet a different forum by another user (not me)-- who says he was a beta tester for the Ensemble.

    It's been said, "one person's granola is another person's kitty litter".

    I'm not sure what can be concluded with these two reviews except that like everything else it boils down to a matter of taste.

    I was lucky enough to be a beta tester of the Apogee Ensemble, and I had the opportunity to run it thru some of it’s paces in the last short while. I’ve been absolutely slammed with work, and continue to be slammed for the next while - so here are my first brief impressions.

    Right off the bat I’ll admit that I have not had the time to check out the preamps or the A->D. I always like to do preamp shootouts with a pal (who has a nicer recording space than I do) and we take turns doing it ‘blind’ to remove any biases, and that isn’t possible for the next while... (we are both insanely busy right now) Hopefully we’ll be able to get together soon to check out the pres and A->D.

    So - the Ensemble’s integration to Logic is really, really well done. It is super convenient to run it from within Logic. I also used the box as a standalone unit using Maestro - and that also works really well. I was also able to use the unit as the sound output from my G5 (playing itunes directly out of it, without using Maestro) and it all worked great.

    So I’m sure everyone is keen to know how the D->A sounds, and the short answer is - great!

    I did a few comparisons to some hardware I have in my studio.....

    I compared the Ensemble D->A to my Rosetta 200 D->A and yes, the Rosetta 200 was a slight bit better, but the Ensemble stood up remarkably well! Maybe an analogy would be that the Ensemble sounded like the least expensive, brand new Mercedes Benz, and the Rosetta 200 sounded like a more high end, brand new Mercedes Benz. Both were great, clearly from the same family...... “cut from the same cloth”, if you will..... but one was a little better..... Sorry for the lame analogy.

    Next was a comparison between the Ensemble D->A and the Digi 002R analog outs. I used the boxes side by side at the same time, using two computers playing the exact same stereo 16 bit 44.1 mix. Both boxes were on internal clock. Comparing the same mix (level matched) the Ensemble had a clearer, wider, more natural sound stage (no shock)

    I also did a comparison between the Ensemble D->A and the Motu Traveller. Again - I used the boxes side by side at the same time, using two computers playing the exact same stereo 16 bit 44.1 mix. Both boxes were on internal clock.

    The Ensemble D->A sounded deeper, wider, and more natural. The Traveller sounded somewhat congested, and quite a bit flatter.

    The Ensemble’s outputs enabled me to hear more detail in reverb tails. I could also hear a more three dimensional space around certain instruments in a dense mix.

    The Ensemble D->A had a bit more 'life' to the sound, in a subtle way.

    Certain individual sounds within the dense mix using the Traveller D -> A sounded a bit papery and slightly harsh, where the same sounds within the dense mix using the Ensemble D->A sounded more natural and dimensional.

    Other observations - the meters on the front of the Ensemble work well. The input and output knobs feel like ‘quality’ and work really well. The unit itself is built like a tank, seemingly, and has a really nice solid feel. The sockets on the back are all well secured. The whole thing is just completely confidence inspiring.

    Oh yeah - the headphone output(s) sound GREAT! It was the first thing I tried out as soon as I got the box home, and I just about fell over. I think it has the best sounding built in headphone output on a piece of gear (not a dedicated headphone amp) that I have ever heard. Folks being recorded will really appreciate how good it sounds, and yes, it goes plenty loud!

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    @Another User said:

    some companies will have better A/D converters and lesser grade D/A converters - obviously in the hopes of recording better quality sound. Well, the Ensemble's converters, again according to Apogee, the converters are the same in and out! Which means that the same lacking highs and hyped lows will be recorded.


    Yah, you really have to take reports like this on the internet with a huge grain of salt. I wouldn't be in a hurry to write it off just because of this guy's opinions.

    Of course I could be wrong - he might be a brilliant engineer with great ears who just happens to be fuzzy about some of the technical details. But I'm highly skeptical.

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    @Another User said:

    some companies will have better A/D converters and lesser grade D/A converters - obviously in the hopes of recording better quality sound. Well, the Ensemble's converters, again according to Apogee, the converters are the same in and out! Which means that the same lacking highs and hyped lows will be recorded.


    Yah, you really have to take reports like this on the internet with a huge grain of salt. I wouldn't be in a hurry to write it off just because of this guy's opinions.

    Of course I could be wrong - he might be a brilliant engineer with great ears who just happens to be fuzzy about some of the technical details. But I'm highly skeptical.

    It can be a tough call. Had he compared the Ensemble to a Radio Shack interface, for example, the results might have been different yet. Neither were the tests in either review particularly scientific-- who knows what monitors were being used in all tests.

    But, a colleague of mine just got his MacPro today with a Symphony card-- plus a 16x, a Rosetta 800, and a miniDAC. I'm waiting to hear back.

    Maybe I should just go to his studio to "hear" for myself!