Virtual Symphony Records

[William]

I wish there was a record label that specialized in serious composing for sampling libraries like the VSL. In other words, something that would help classical composers whose orchestral music has been ignored because it didn't fit what the symphony music directors thought would make money from their dumbass audiences whose main goal concerning the art of music is to decorate themselves with what they think is high-class. In other words, the twenty-millionth performance of Tchaikovsky's Fifth. (Though yeah I do like it you start to get a tad tired after twenty-million and oneth performance).

Someone should create a real record label that has high standards for both musicianship and recording quality, and that allows a voice to composers who use sampling to perfectly realize their musical imaginations rather than merely substitute for a live orchestra as in TV/film music. (Not that all TV/film music does this - just 99.999%). The use of sampling can be a high art and there should be a record label that realizes this, though there isn't one currently.

I wish that a successful company like VSL would sponsor something like this though obviously they have their hands full with what they're doing already.

I imagine this thread will recede into the background of the huge dead past very quickly...

[Alexcremers]

I've seen a few titles (not more than two, though) in the contemporary orchestral catagory that uses samples instead of the real thing. One of them is already a few years old. The other is quite new. I remember it were two guys and they named their samples as "The Virtual Orchestra". I think it's on Sony. Anyway, it's already happening.
The funny thing is, that, as soon I knew it wasn't a real orchestra, I lost my interest. [*-)]


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Alex Cremers

[Dietz]

Pssssst William, don't tell them all our plans! ;-]

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[Nigel Watson]

Alex, you know, I think I would have the same intuitive reaction....where's the difference between the two?

The music -or perhaps we should say, the composition -can be fantastic in either case, for sure, but try saying to yourself:

"Musical Samples"

and then:

"Musical Performers"

Do you feel different emotions in each case? I know I do.

I suppose it's actually good and healthy when the "virtual" world does not excite us as much as the real, human one. Still, the boundaries are there for us to explore, and VSL is right up front in enabling us to do this.

Nigel

[William]

I'm trying to see your point about losing interest when you know it's samples, but I honestly don't. I get more interested if I know a composer did it all with samples. Maybe because my orientation is I'm really interested in the composition rather than the performance and the performance is just a way of getting to it (or getting in the way of it depending on how bad the orchestra is). And with samples that are good enough, the composition can be a pure creation in the imagination of the composer like a painting executed entirely by the artist or a poem written solely by the poet.

[Nigel Watson]

William, I share your feelings in some ways: I think most of us would prefer a sampled piece which does justice to a composition, rather than a "real" performance, if that performance is really not supporting the composition.

And, I have certainly heard sampled music which affects me. Hey, even the Proteus 2 Orchestral demo was (is ) nice[:)]!!

But, sometimes the excitement and interest that I feel when I find out "it's done with samples" is more of a kind of curiosity: " how did he(she) do that? How could I do that?"....which can actually distract from the process of simply absorbing the music.

But, as I said, the boundaries are being tested. Fun, isn't it?

Nigel

[Alexcremers]

Well, I guess I look at it from another angle. I always think that if I don't like the music, I still have a recording of a real orchestra. I can't say the same when the orchestra is virtual. I've always been a sucker for real orchestras. Don't get me wrong, I love samples and think that they are important. I always wanted to have an orchestra somewhere in my house. (yes, real people actually sitting in a room) An orchestra you could jam with or improvise, at any giving time, like you would with a piano. Imagine you could walk into this room at 3.00 AM and say, hey, I got an idea, what if we play this part this way...etc, etc.
Samples are the closest thing to make this dream come true. [:'(]

[:D]
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Alex Cremers

[Ian Lawson]

Back in March Chandos Records released a CD of ‘serious’ orchestral concert music by Ben Heneghan and myself. The disc is called ‘Walking the Wild Rhondda’ (There is also a surround-sound SACD)

As far as we know, this is the first ‘virtual orchestra’ release on a significant label. It has received many positive reviews including one in the latest addition of ‘Gramophone’. There is a sample MP3 download to be found at www.chandos.net.

Irrespective of its merits (compared with what it might have been like performed by a ‘real’ orchestra) it has picked up a lot of radio play throughout the world, and, as such, has had a very positive effect for our music.

It was spooky that at about the same time the CD was released I received the vsl demo package. It’s true to say that vsl could have benefited this recording hugely - which is a bit frustrating - but I’ve decided to view this release as ‘pioneering’, but I am planning a second release utilising this new wonderful library.

BTW, Ben and I released our first ‘virtual orchestra’ CD in 1992 on our own label.
At that time our main sampler was an S1000 with a ‘massive’ 8-megs of RAM!


Regards,


Ian Lawson

[gungnir]

Ok, Ian:

You can't get away with only that amount of information on a forum like this. So let's hear it, come on, what's the scoop?

Libraries used, sequencer, did you guys play most passages in realtime or step input, reverb? House at the North Pole is a very nice piece by the way, its evolutionary character satisfies completely, one is very pleased to remain in your sonic dwelling. But the amount of work sequencing a piece of this scope must have been significant indeed.

Can you give some idea of your approach to produced this piece and how long it took?

Cheers, Don

[Ian Lawson]

Hi Don,

These are the basics.

Samplers: E64 (64megs) E6400 (128 megs). Sequencer: Akai MPC3000. Everything recorded an instrument at a time on to a Tascam MX24. Mixer: O2R, lots of dynamic eq, minute fader movements etc. Reverb: Lexicon PCM 90 (TC unity card for the rear in the surround version. Pretty well every thing recorded in realtime (with click track) – but lots of editing, particularly used E64(00)’s ability to play samples from any point (mod wheel controls sample start point) Tend to use mono versions for solo instruments (as I’ve been doing with vsl/giga) The whole thing took about a year. Each track took 8 –9 days to mix. The surround versions are completely different mixes.

The music was written in detail first - ending up as a score on Sibelius. Then the whole thing was performed into the sequencer. Although quantisation was not generally used (it’s amazing how untogether it has to be to sound natural) we did use the click track and tempo changes (masses of them) were added after.

Libraries: Mainly MV with support from AO, possibly a couple of things from Prosonus. I’m a bit vague because not everything recorded ended up in the final mix.

The stereo mixes were ‘finalised’ using a very gentle setting – this seemed to bind the music together somewhat, perhaps at the expense of introducing a bit of listener fatigue.

The surround version is a better listen in my opinion. Because the ensembles are stereo they tended to stay left and right, leaving the centre speaker for the heavy percussion – providing masses of headroom. Obviously not the norm but seemed to work well in our particular situation.


Have just bought giga and sonar (very nice) to compliment vsl. Up until now I’ve only used PC’s for sore prep and accounts.

Had no intention of doing another one until vsl came along and now I’m quite keen.

Regards, Ian