Well, Beat I'm not so sure your sarcasm, although in good humour, is quite appropriate here. When a legato sample is held beyond its duration and RS is on you get this note appearing which has no place there. I would consider this to be a slight patch programming bug which could be easily fixed with internal programming that checks for the current sample play position and then turns off RS when close to the end.

Right now it requires automation to turn of RS at the required time which is not too difficult, however, it would be a more professional look for VI to do this automatically. There is plenty to do already without getting bogged down with correcting a "clumsy" aspect of software. Also, by default there is no midi control parameter assigned to RS switching so this needs to be incorporated into any templates which could be a lot of reworking if you didn't consider this when creating the template in the beginning.

I think VIPro absolutely should derive as much information from the way music is played in as possible. The Vienna team have already gone a long way towards this with legato, speed detection etc, and it sounds like they are thinking about ways to continue this innovation. I think there is room for improvement in the way the legato/sustain patches work and utilising sample play point may be a possible way to do this. I'm sure we would all love a patch that allows us to play the wonderful legato, and yet does not have a duration limit, by somehow blending a looped sample towards the end of the legato sample which then does "the right thing" with the next note. 

Cheers,

Tom

I think that there are far more necessary features that don't have work arounds IMO.

B

Hi Tom

First of all, I'm happy that you understood my post as a joke.

But obviously you've got too, that I'm not a friend of automatic controls because we can't really connect 'music' with 'automatic'.

So, in case of "improvements" with new automations I hope that we can switch them off as well.

So we will be free to use them or not. This for getting the most flexibility.

All the best

Beat

@inwinterhesleeps said:

Here's another feature request for VIPro...

It would be nice if VI detected when such a release sample is inappropriate (eg a legato sample has almost reached the end) and automatically muted it in such situations.

Perhaps the default programming of the instruments should also utilise speed detection to remove release samples when they would cause an unnatural sound.

I'd definitely agree with this, it always seems bizarre to hear a release sample after a note has completely ended.

@BJF said:

I think that there are far more necessary features that don't have work arounds IMO.

B

Yes, perhaps, and you should definitely post about them in detail. Let's put everything on the table so that one day we may see some of the best ones implemented. The more the Vienna team know about difficulties their users have with the software, the better the chance of getting software that doesn't rip us out of right brain trains 😊

Tom

Well I guess that the most obvious would be getting rid of phase problems when using velocity crossfade to change velocity layers. However, I'm sure that this would take A LOT of programming development time; but I would say it is the most important feature which doesn't have a workaround, and I would much rather time spent on features such as this.

B

@Beat Kaufmann said:

For example the sustain articulations come with RS. If you switch off the RS here you get an unnatural and abrupt stop of the sound.

So I think it is not really a good idea to switch off the RS for sustain samples.

This is heresy I know, but to me most of the release samples including sustain instruments are completely unnecessary if you are using reverb and adjust the release time slightly. This is because of the silent stage recordings.  There is almost no sound to them and  if you add any reverb they are non-existent in a mix.   Turning them off saves memory and prevents that annoying pop on a solo violin or whatever.  The only instruments that really need them are effects like the end of a trill, the end of a percussion roll, or the piano perhaps.  Also of course, the pipe organ which was NOT recorded on the silent stage, and so you can hear the reverb of the concert hall. 

 One other thing about using release samples - it is supposed to be unnatural to turn them off.  But they do not exist on about half of the articulations you will use - for example, any dynamic sample that you do not use for its whole length (which of course happens very often) and any portato, long detache or marcato or any medium-length short note which you don't use all of and yet have no release samples.  So about half of the notes you use will not have release samples.  So whether it sounds better on sustains or not  it doesn't really matter, because you will not have any release samples about half of the time.  

So using release samples only makes sense if they are loud ones - like the pipe organ, the repetitions where they are very valuable, trills, rolls.  But otherwise, they are absolutely inaudible and cause problems.  One other problem with release samples I am not sure I mentioned -

if you are doing a sudden change from on-note velocity to velocity crossfade  release samples do not respond to the change.  And so you have a sudden POP of sound when the sustain is correct.  This is when you switch from crossfade to note-on velocity or vice versa within a note in order to make an instantaneous change and is a programming glitch inherent in the release samples whose level is determined in that case by the original note-on velocity.  I doubt very many people noticed this, but using sudden switches from note-on velocity to crossfade velocity within a currently playing note is an extremely good trick for doing actual dynamics that players use very often.  ALso, it is helpful for adjusting instantly levels between different articulations that do not match.  And release samples as they currently exist mess that up completely.

@William said:

 if you are doing a sudden change from on-note velocity to velocity crossfade  release samples do not respond to the change.  And so you have a sudden POP of sound when the sustain is correct.  This is when you switch from crossfade to note-on velocity or vice versa within a note in order to make an instantaneous change and is a programming glitch inherent in the release samples whose level is determined in that case by the original note-on velocity.  I doubt very many people noticed this, but using sudden switches from note-on velocity to crossfade velocity within a currently playing note is an extremely good trick for doing actual dynamics that players use very often.  ALso, it is helpful for adjusting instantly levels between different articulations that do not match.  And release samples as they currently exist mess that up completely.

This explains some inexplicable issues I've been having.  Thanks for sharing this William because I hadn't considered release samples being the culprit.

Hi guys!
Thanks for the information here.
I still have a question.

I can't find a way to deactive release sample for patch only.

Is it only available to the preset level?
It makes sense that not.

Thanks for your help and good luck with your music!

Yes, they are either on or off and you can switch them on/off using a controller.

DG