[SOLVED] Mysterious MIR problem

[Michael C.]

OK, I talked with a fellow from Ilio today who confirmed that I was setting things up properly in VE Pro (hooray!).  However, neither he nor I could get MIR to wsork, even in standalone mode (using no DAW software).  I even uninstalled VEP and installed the lastest version from yesterday, but still no reverb.  We have checked every slider, switch and check box he could think of but it will not produce and reverb effect.  The room tone works and I can add instruments just fine and even specific instrument profiles, but still nothing.  Any ideas?

I'm wondering if there is a tool that will COMPLETELY remove VEP5.  I uninstalled from Windows 7 control panel, but noticed that some setings I had chosen (e.g. view grid, titles, etc.) were still selected and I do not believe they are defaults.  So, perhaps somethings remains even after uninstalling that keeps some information.  I could get MIR to work when I first installed it, but it was after experiemnting with VEP, which I finally figured out, that MIR stopped working?

 Thanks,

Mike

[DG]

 Have you checked that neither the Instrument or the general wet/dry slider is not set to 100% dry?

DG

[Michael C.]

Dietz, yes, we checked everything.  I could send you a screen cap if you want.  I see a signal, hear the instrument.  Everyting appears to be working, except there's no reverb coming from MIR.  Austin was as perplexed as me. 

The only thing I can think to do is reinstall my original hard drive image.  The computer is only 1.5 weeks old so it's not that big a deal, but I would rather not do that if I don't have to.  I'm so close it's painful!

Is there a way to remove ALL of VEP and MIR so that it was as clean as before the original install?  I must have switchewd something on or off that is really hard to find.  I can't image what else it could be, especially because I am running it in stnadalone version rioght now.

Mike

[Dietz]

(... that was DG before, not me .... always remember: he is faster ;-D ....)

*****

But back on topic:

Have you loaded a Venue (a.k.a. "the hall") - not just the start-up screen - within MIR Pro?

Do you see the MIR Icon (which represents your signal source) on the Venue's stage? (Press the "HOTSPOT" button in the lower right corner to see the valid areas - they are yellow.) - If you don't see the Icon, the signal source is not connected to MIR Pro; just load the MIR Pro plugin from the "EFFECTS +" menu in the VE Pro channel then.

Does the MIR Icon receive a signal, actually?

Is the Dry / Wet-ratio of the Icon set to full dry?

Is the Global  Wet / Dry Offset set to full dry?

Is the green Dry Solo-button pressed in the Output Channel?

... if all of this is fine - what's the latency of your audio system set to? Values below 64 samples won't work.

Kind regards,

[Michael C.]

@Dietz said:

(... that was DG before, not me .... always remember: he is faster ;-D ....)

*****

Se my answers after each question in all CAPS:

But back on topic:

Have you loaded a Venue (a.k.a. "the hall") - not just the start-up screen - within MIR Pro? 

YES

Do you see the MIR Icon (which represents your signal source) on the Venue's stage? (Press the "HOTSPOT" button in the lower right corner to see the valid areas - they are yellow.) - If you don't see the Icon, the signal source is not connected to MIR Pro; just load the MIR Pro plugin from the "EFFECTS +" menu in the VE Pro channel then.

YES, THE ICON IS THERE

Does the MIR Icon receive a signal, actually?

YES, I SEE IT CHANGING AS I PLAY THE KEYBOARD

Is the Dry / Wet-ratio of the Icon set to full dry?

NO, IT IS IN THE MIDDLE

Is the Global  Wet / Dry Offset set to full dry?

NO, IT IS IN THE MIDDLE

Is the green Dry Solo-button pressed in the Output Channel?

NO, AND IF I ENGAGE THE WET SOLO BUTTON, YOU HEAR NO SIGNAL.

... if all of this is fine - what's the latency of your audio system set to? Values below 64 samples won't work.

ALREADY THOUGHT OF THAT, I HAVE GONE AS HIGH AS 256 (my audio interface is capable of going as low as 32, so I checked that it was high enough first.)

What about my idea of being able to do a COMPLETE uninstall.  Somthing must havew remained if some of my setting came back after uninstall and then installing the latest version.

Mike

Kind regards,

[Michael C.]

G or Dietz,

I just wanted to say that I was able toget MIR working right out of the box when I first got it and used it witht the standalone VEP app and was able to load an instrument and get MIR working right away, it was very simple.  Then, as you know, I had some issues incorporating it into Sonar.  I got some help on the Cakewalk forum with the VEP and Sonar issues.  When I was unable to get MIR working in Sonar today I called Austin at Ilio and we worked for about 15 minutes to try to get it working.  I had the idea to shut everything down, raise the latency rate to 256 and then just try starting up the VEP standalone program to trouble shoot without the added issues of Sonar.  That's what got me and Austin stumped.  We could find no visable issues in the loaded instrument channel that would account for no reverb.  You can see that a signal is getting through and you can hear it, but we were unsucessful at ever get any reverb to kick in.

 The biggest proof to me that no reverb is happening is was when I engaged the green "Solo Wet" button.  When engaged you hear nothing, so there is clearly nothing coming through.

I tried one more thing which I thought might work.  I opened a perset in VEP standalone to see if the reverb would work but nothing happened once again.  Everything else seems to work:  I can move the instrument around the stage and it the sound moves, I can move the mic location and it sounds different, I can change volume of the instrument, everything, but no reverb.I sent screen caps of both the MIR view and the mixer view to Paul - I did not have email for either of you. I have asked him to forward them to you to see if it helps see something I am missing.

By the way, I even re-installed the room packs and presets as well as the whole VEP/MIR program - still no reverb.

 

Here's one idea.  Do you have a very simple VEP project file you could send me that you know works so I could test that and see?  If it works, I'll just delete all channels and save it as my default blank project template.  It may not ever show us what was wrong, but it may get it working.  What do you think?

Thank you again,

Mike

[Michael C.]

You can ignore this post, it is all in the previous one.  I consoladated them after I sent the screen caps to Paul.

Mike

[Dietz]

Oh boy, I really begin to feel sorry for you, Mike. Believe it or not - MIR was meant to make our lives easier, not more complicated. :-/

I will have to wait for your screenshots, because right now I haven't got the slightest idea what else could go wrong.

Just to make sure that I understand you correctly: You don't hear MIR's room signal, even when you open one of the new Venue Presets?  Actually this could be a sign that there is something wrong routing-wise - outside MIR, that is.

... we'll work that out, promised. ;-)

[Michael C.]

@Dietz said:

Just to make sure that I understand you correctly: You don't hear MIR's room signal, even when you open one of the new Venue Presets?  Actually this could be a sign that there is something wrong routing-wise - outside MIR, that is.

... we'll work that out, promised. 😉

Dietz,

The only signal I hear, whether opening a new project or a venue perset is a totally dry instrument. I hear the instrument and can even move it around the stage and hear panning changes, I can even use different mic placements and get the sound of differing distance, but, no hall reverb of any kind.  As I said, when I play any instrument on the stage it is totally dry - when I move the wet/dry slider to totally wet, there is no sound.  Keep in mind, this is in standalone, not when using Sonar, so at least we know Sonar is not the problem.

Has Paul forwarded my screen shots to you?  If not, please send me your email address.

Thanks,

Mike

[Dietz]

Mike, please send your screenshots to . TIA!

[Michael C.]

@Dietz said:

Mike, please send your screenshots to . TIA!

Dietz,

Just sent them.  Let me know if you need more screen shots or anything else to help you diagnose the issue.

Thank you,

Mike

[Michael C.]

Dietz,

I may have figured this out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When we were talking about latency settings, I thought you were asking about what my audio interface was set at.  I use a Steinberg MR 816X and generally leave it set at 128.  I had the thoguht to go into the VEP menu "Options/Preferences/Vienna MIR Pro" and saw that the latency setting was also set to 128.  I changed that setting to 256 and the reverb started working!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I kept playing around with it and found that I can set the latency in VEP/MIR to anything from Zero to 32768 - EXCEPT 128- and the reverb works!  It seems that MIR also doesn't like it when I change my audio interface latency to anything other than 128.  Does this make sense?

Honestly, I am not as concerned with it making sense as I am happy that I can hear the reverb, but it would be interesting to know.

Thanks,

Mike

[Dietz]

Good to hear that, Mike.

This is exactly what I wrote from the VSL Support account after seeing your screenshots. Didn't you receive my mail?

As a matter of fact, all of this _is_ making sense. On the second page of the Quick Start Guide (p.7), MIR Pro's manual explicitly points out the relation between these settings:

@Another User said:

Preferences

[....]

MIR Pro relies on a massive amount of convolution processes, which is why the engine has its own latency settings to optimize CPU load. As a rule of thumb, more latency means less CPU load, but there are two numbers to be taken into account here, namely the host buffer size (as reported by your audio system drivers) and latency setting. The latter should either be 0 (which is usually ideal) or a number greater the host buffer size. MIR latency below or equal to the host buffer size will yield sub-par results.

It's mentioned again later on p.8:

Kind regards,