Should i record orchestra sounds mono or stereo!

[jazzalen]

Hi!
I have problem!Exs24 has option to use sampled sound as mono or stereo!So what is best for strings,brass......
tnx!

[Nick Batzdorf]

Stereo!

That's my vote.

[Dietz]

For the productions you can listen to in our "Demos"-section, we used all our instruments in stereo. The stereo-width is collapsed to a value that fits their image on the virtual stage, though. For my needs, the Waves S1-plugin is used most of the time for this task.

We had some discussions on this topic on this board, if you want to know a bit more, so you might to go back to older threads for further reading.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[Audun Jemtland]

I'm an amateur, the only thing I know is that mono means: single....And that the sound comes out on one speaker....Why even bother to use mono? I don't understand this...Could someone please explain?

[Peter Roos]

Mono in our context here does not mean one speaker, it is used to refer to mono sound sources.

If you want to emulate an orchestra, you can decide that, for instance, each woodwind instrument does not need any stereo information, because you want it to "sound" like it is some 10-15 meters away from the listener. At such a distance, the only stereo information you need is from the ambience, not from the instrument.

Using an original stereo recording in this situation may result in weird "stereo movements", because any subtle left-right movement in the original recording would result in a movement of several meters across your virtual stage.

So the typical approach is to reduce the stereo width of individual instruments and of instrument groups if you want to create a sense of distance. Of course, you will still need to position all these narrowed sounds to their correct location.

Ensemble sounds (strings, unison horns, etc) should be narrowed, not converted to mono, for example using a plugin like the Waves S1. Individual instruments CAN be reduced to mono, this is a matter of preference. I have created mono versions of all my solo instruments, for use in orchestral mockups.

Mono instruments have the advantage that they only use 50% RAM of their stereo originals (so you can load a lot more instruments into GigaStudio). Also, mono instruments can be panned with midi. Stereo instruments (ideally) should not be panned with midi, but with a stereo pan control (otherwise you throw away stereo information...). But that's another story... [[;)]]

I hope this clears things up a bit.

Cheers,

Peter

[Audun Jemtland]

Thank you VERY much for that incredibly perfect explained post Peter!

Does that go for ALL ensemble, that you don't use mono? Is there any exceptions?

That cleared things up quite a bit yes, thank you, it's greatly appreciated.

And an off topic question: How much did it cost for you Peter to copyright your songs on your web page? Is it another deal when they're layed out online than offline? (difference in price)

I am making a web page for myself and need to really copyright them instead of just write Copyright © 2004 etc. which doesn't count.

[mathis]

Hi Audun,

of course that counts. The copyright is yours as soon as you have created something. Concerning german (and I guess european) law no extra step is needed to fix your copyright. It´s your intellectual property from the first moment on.

Bests,
- M

[Audun Jemtland]

yeah I would think so too...but ok, that's maybe when you release a cd these things start to get payed for...
If you release something to the public then you have to prove to someone(the songs in written score,notes) that it is you who have created it right? At least that's what people did before.

[Peter Roos]

@Another User said:

I am making a web page for myself and need to really copyright them instead of just write Copyright © 2004 etc. which doesn't count.

Like Matthis said: you have the copyrights to your own work by default.

BUT, not everyone is aware that there are different "kinds" of copy"rights". For instance, the publishing rights are often transferred to a publishing company, when you make money with your music. If they are transferred, you cannot decide who may and who may not play your music.
That is up to the publishing company! With film music the film production company is often the publisher of your music.

BUT, of course, you still get your royalties for being the original composer. Albeit not a much if you would have your own publishing company (which is not really difficult, if you are doing well commercially). However, most film production companies will simply demand that they get the publishing rights.

Another typical party that is involved with copyrights is the party that collects royalties on your behalf. In the US you have the ASCAP and some others. In my country that's BUMA/STEMRA. If you have a contract, you give them the right to collect royalties on your behalf, and for some 15% of YOUR part of the royalties. (They also collect royalties for the publishers, for which they also get a percentage!).

These parties also hold specific "rights" to your music, as soon as you have a contract with them. In my case with the BUMA/STEMRA, I am not allowed to transfer rights (like sell my copyrights to another person, which is often: work for hire). And, actually I should have to pay this organisation for the few demos that I have on my site. Because for ALL music played in public, the BUMA/STEMRA is allowed to collect fees/royaties, by the Dutch Copyright Law. If I made a commercial CD, I need to pay royalties UP-FRONT for each batch of CD's I order. Of course, after a year, I would get 85% back of those royalties... [[[;)]]] Weird idea.

Rules differ per country, I guess, but overall the game is the same. By default, you have ALL the rights to your music. You can decide to grant other parties parts of your rights (like the publishing and the royalty collection, except for the "personal, non-transferable rights" as creator.

Good example of the confusion over "rights" is with the music from the Beatles. Michael Jackson owns a the publishing rights of most Beatles music. So he earns a nice share of royalties. But Paul, Ringo and the Lennon and Harrison estate still get royalties for what they wrote. They still have that part.

Concluding: if you think that there are serious risks of people stealing your nice musical ideas... If you can prove that you wrote them before that person, you're safe. Otherwise, it's you against the other. The copyright law still applies to your work of creation, but you just can't prove it [[[;)]]] For the paranoid composers, there are standard ways (or tricks) for registering a work. In Holland you can print out some score material from your sequencer and have it timestamped and registered at the Tax Agency for a few euros per document. That is sufficient proof if it would come to a case in court. Chances for us mortals to get hit by a meteor are much larger, I'm afraid, then to run into a plagiarism case [:D]

Just some notes on this...

BTW: I am still just a complete amateur with my orchestral toys. I just happen to have a contract with this BUMA/STEMRA organisation because way back in 1987 I was composer of a small Top-40 hit in my country.

Peter

[Audun Jemtland]

Thank you!! amateur? yeah right. Doesn't sound like it
I am an amateur too only I don't have the orchestral tools...what am I waiting for? oh yeah..I'm gonna buy a car.

Well, I have a theme I'm extremely afraid of which I'm going to lay out on my web page. An action cue with the theme in...

I'm curious Peter, how long have you been composing?

[DG]

@Audun Jemtland said:

And an off topic question: How much did it cost for you Peter to copyright your songs on your web page? Is it another deal when they're layed out online than offline? (difference in price)

I am making a web page for myself and need to really copyright them instead of just write Copyright © 2004 etc. which doesn't count.

If you are really concerned about copyright, then you can print copies of the music (or burn a CD) and send it to yourself by registered post. This way you have proof of sending date and therefore the latest time that you could have written it. Obviously when the post arrives, don't open it... [:D]

[cm]

this has been an old trick also for (film-)scripts - but note: this is only a proof you've sent an envelope and doesn't say anything about the content!
more likely you want to send it to a lawyer or better a notary.
usually there should exist some kind of a *union* or *federation* where you can deposit your work (for little money) which would be a much better proove of ownership/copyright in case you had to take legal steps
christian